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Currently there's not much traffic on this website. Last year's server problems might be one reason. However, I'm wondering if it's a good decision to have English as primary language. Yes, there's a prominent, albeit english language note on the home page that one can use their mother tongue. On the other hand, Swyx' market is small and medium enterprises and the majority of customers are located in german speaking countries. I'm not sure if all these customers speak fluent English.
Does using English scare off German Swyx users? Would it be possible to show this web site in german, too? Either automatically by using the browser's language setting or manual by letting the user switch? And there are lot of different forums here with not much traffic. Wouldn't it be better to have much less (three or four) forums, but separate ones in english and german language?
Martin HüserProduct Manager, Scrum Product Owner, Swyx Solutions AG |
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Hi all.
I thought very carefully about the language issue when setup up Swyx Forum last year. The question is where to stop ? Should all content be provided in at least two languages or just lets say the forum ? What's about the Wiki, the downloads (the descriptioins of the downloads), a.s.o. ?
I decided to start in english language first and then see how it comes out.
Of course it is possible to provide a complete german lanugage website beside the english one as well, but this is connected with a fair amount of work for me. So, unless there is no need for it I decided not to provide a german version. In the end it is my sparetime that is consumed by things like that.
But I am very interested in your opinion as well. How do you feel about this mostly english speaking website even though your mother tongue isn't english ? Or in coming back to Martin's post: would you like some (not all) content of this site being available in german language as well ?
Tom.
Tom Wellige
(Lead Solution Consultant, Swyx)
I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
Richard P. Feynman
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One more thing on this topic:
Even though the postings are currently decreasing over the last weeks I still see increasing access statistics in term of page hits, visits and unique visitors per month.
Question is: what does this tell me ?
There are lots of people on the web around just being infromation consumers instead of information providers. That's how it is, and that's totaly ok with me, unless there are still enough information providers around.
Here at Swyx Forum I have to say that I am really happy with the huge amount of active users, willing to share their knowledge and help others out of their problems. After nearly one year we have a fair amount of open source projects and also some (not many) active bloggers.
Sure, that could be much more. The first attempts for the "Swyx Tech Talks", the online chat event, where not really a success, much more people could provide information within the Wiki and also my call for information for the upcoming Marketplace resulted in more or less NO response.
So, is this really a language issue, or is an active/passive user issue. From my point of view it's the latter one.
Convince me from the opposite, please ! 
Tom Wellige
(Lead Solution Consultant, Swyx)
I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
Richard P. Feynman
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| Tom Wellige wrote
Even though the postings are currently decreasing over the last weeks I still see increasing access statistics in term of page hits, visits and unique visitors per month.
Question is: what does this tell me ? |
We have to admit that the forum covers a quite narrow subject. SwyxWare is still a quite 'unknown' product. Looking at the amount of postings over the last month, they are decreasing. This is quite normal. There will always be a wave of postings when a forum is put online. Then after some time 'all' topics and questions have been covered. New users will find answers to their questions among these existing posts.
Probably we will see more activity again after the release of 6.10, but it will take a little time before the 6.10 user base is noticeble.
But, back to the topic; Language.
Martin do have a point. There is also a closed Swyx Forum where only the Swyx channel has access. A lot of posts in that forum are in German language. But, from what I can see (limited knowledge of German) most of these postings would not fit on this open forum anyway.
We should discuss this in this thread, and I encourage everyone to do that. My personal 'feeling' is that we should keep the structure. There are some posts in German already on this forum, showing that if they want they post in their native language.
Morten Rokosz
(Swyx T.A.G Member)
The best way to predict the future is to invent it. |
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Add a poll to this thread only for registered users and have a look at the results as support for this discussion.
I think the language of the forum should depend on the absolute market share of german users, e.g. if the current swyx market consists of more than ~60 (please fill in your choice!) percent german users, the main language here should be german. I'm absolutely sure that english writing scares many german users off and they stick to reading information than becoming "information providers" or discussion participators.
I would vote for changing the main language to german but keeping a small english area where many topics fit in together. At the current "post rate" there is no need to categorize in this depth.
A poll should separate answers like this:
I'm a native german speaker and would / would not prefer...
I'm not a native german speaker and would / would not prefer... |
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| Re: Language (Netherlands) |
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Just to express my thoughts on the used language.
I'm from the Netherlands and most things I do on the internet (mail/forums/browsing) is in English.
I can read German (don't ask me to speak it...), so I also read all german posts.
But I really think that English is the most widely used language on the Internet and so this site should be mainly in English.
If the ambitions of Swyx are focussed mainly onto Germany (and I hope not), there is a point. But outside of Germany and some other nearby countries, the German language is absolutely unknown (pleasy don't be offended...) and unreadable.
So if my vote counts, I vote for English.
Is there no decent translation site that can be automatically linked to translate english posts to german?
greetings
Martijn van Weert
Letgo!
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Martijn is right. English is the most widely used language in the internet and this website honors that. Swyx' ambitions are definitely not German only. I just had the feeling that especially the forum might not be that appealing to German speaking people. In Swyx PartnerNet the forum with the most traffic (Technical and Services) is split into a german and english one. Both have about the same amount of postings.
Maybe fewer forums but separated ones for German and English are a way to attract more people?
Martin HüserProduct Manager, Scrum Product Owner, Swyx Solutions AG |
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I would like to suggest something else:
The welcome text on the startpage of Swyx Forum in different european languages with their native flags in front and a hint that the common lanuage is english but the native langauge is also welcome in the forums.
Honestely, I dislike the idea of having some forums for english, german and/or maybe some other languages as well. One can figure from the subject if the language fits or not.
What do you think ?
Tom Wellige
(Lead Solution Consultant, Swyx)
I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
Richard P. Feynman
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| Re: Language (United Kingdom) |
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Hi, I am a native English speaker. Whilst I can speak a little German, usually ordering the important things in life like a beer or a meal, I cannot read anything bar the simplest German.
I find that the Google language tools singularly fail to adequately translate technical German as I have tried it on other German speaking forums. I also think that as English is (in my opinion) a common second language to many countries that the forum's mani language should remain English. :-)
Chris |
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| Tom Wellige wrote
Honestely, I dislike the idea of having some forums for english, german and/or maybe some other languages as well. One can figure from the subject if the language fits or not.
What do you think ?
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I agree 100%. Germany is of course Swyx' largest single market. But I do not know how the combined market outside Germany counts. But I will encourage everybody to use their native language if needed. Somebody will be able to answer. However, keep in mind that one of the ideas behind a community is sharing. If another language than english is used in a thread, a lot of people will be cut of from this information.
Bare så det er sagt......
Morten Rokosz
(Swyx T.A.G Member)
The best way to predict the future is to invent it. |
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| Re: Language (Netherlands) |
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| Morten Rokosz wrote
| Tom Wellige wrote Honestely, I dislike the idea of having some forums for english, german and/or maybe some other languages as well. One can figure from the subject if the language fits or not. What do you think ? |
I agree 100%. Germany is of course Swyx' largest single market. But I do not know how the combined market outside Germany counts. But I will encourage everybody to use their native language if needed. Somebody will be able to answer. However, keep in mind that one of the ideas behind a community is sharing. If another language than english is used in a thread, a lot of people will be cut of from this information.
Bare så det er sagt......
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Ja het is weer eens zover, ik ben het weer eens helemaal eens met Morton, eens kijken welke niet Nederlander hier wat van bakt.
Wilco Steenbergen
Account Manager VoIP & Data
Adfocom Automatisering B.V.
E-mail: WSteenbergen@adfocom.nl
Internet: www.adfocom.nl |
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| Re: Language (Netherlands) |
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Ik ben natuurlijk groot voorstander van de Engelse taal.
Omdat natuurlijk diverse problemen al zijn opgelost door anderen met ervaring. Het zou zonde zijn om deze niet meer te lezen, omdat ze in een andere taal zijn geschreven zoals Duits, Frans of Farci!
I must agree to keep it all in English.
Since certain issues I will face are already solved by other people with big experience, it would be such a waste to not read it anymore, simply because it was in German, French or Farci!
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There is one more problem with all the different languages:
As owner of this site I am fully responsible for the content due to german law regulations (I know, that's stupid, but that's how it is). With having posts in my forum in langauges I do not understand I am unable to follow my responsibility of moderating posts.
I would need need trustworthy volunteers for each language to become a moderator of the entire forum.
I don't have a problem with that, the opposite is true ! It is just something that must not be forgotten.
BTW: a moderator is *not* someone who must answer all questions, he is just someone who have a look on posts and edit, move or delete them if necessary.
Tom Wellige
(Lead Solution Consultant, Swyx)
I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
Richard P. Feynman
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| Tom Wellige wrote
BTW: a moderator is *not* someone who must answer all questions,
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 So that is what I misunderstood 
Morten Rokosz
(Swyx T.A.G Member)
The best way to predict the future is to invent it. |
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| Morten Rokosz wrote
So that is what I misunderstood
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Obviously
But sorry to say Morten, you are an Admin, you MUST answer all questions ! *ROTFL*
Tom Wellige
(Lead Solution Consultant, Swyx)
I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
Richard P. Feynman
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| Re: Language (Netherlands) |
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| Tom Wellige wrote
There is one more problem with all the different languages:
As owner of this site I am fully responsible for the content due to german law regulations (I know, that's stupid, but that's how it is). With having posts in my forum in langauges I do not understand I am unable to follow my responsibility of moderating posts.
I would need need trustworthy volunteers for each language to become a moderator of the entire forum.
I don't have a problem with that, the opposite is true ! It is just something that must not be forgotten.
BTW: a moderator is *not* someone who must answer all questions, he is just someone who have a look on posts and edit, move or delete them if necessary.
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Oke, in dat geval: Kun je op mij rekenen, ik ben bereid de verantwoordelijkheid op mij te nemen voor het Nederlandse gedeelte, (Oke, in that case: You can count on me, I am prepared to take the repsonsability for the Dutch part)
But that's if you are really intend to make those language dependable fora. I prefer to keep on talking in Englisch so even Morton and I can understand each other!
Wilco Steenbergen
Account Manager VoIP & Data
Adfocom Automatisering B.V.
E-mail: WSteenbergen@adfocom.nl
Internet: www.adfocom.nl |
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| Wilco.Steenbergen wrote
But that's if you are really intend to make those language dependable fora. I prefer to keep on talking in Englisch so even Morton and I can understand each other!
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Thanks for your offer
You don't need to worry: I am not going to change the default (i.e. standard) language here ! Maybe a more visible hint that is is also possible to use the mother tounge as well with all it's consequences (smaller audience, etc.)
Until now I didn't get the feeling that some plain german or other lanuage forums are really wanted. Just two voices, that's not enough to convince me  
Tom.
Tom Wellige
(Lead Solution Consultant, Swyx)
I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
Richard P. Feynman
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| Morten Rokosz wrote
Probably we will see more activity again after the release of 6.10, but it will take a little time before the 6.10 user base is noticeble.
But, back to the topic; Language.
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OK, a little bit offtopic, but we just upgraded to 6.10 after 5 years of experience with the older versions (at last 4.33)
I hope that I don't need to have a lot of activity here in the forum - still hope that 6.10 is as good as Version 4.33
But like Morten wrote - back to the topic:
Like you can read I am not a native english speaker and writer and I am not a great poster on the forum but a great reader every day. Keep the forum in English so i can read all the articles you wrote here from around the world (Norway, New Zeeland - hey still missing Australia,....). It is not easy for me to understand everything, but if I will get a special Question, I will ask in German and hope you will agree with me.
My only wish for the home site of Swyx-forum is to have the links to the "Latest Swyx KB Articles" directly to the German edition - I am a little bit lazy.
greetings
Thomas
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| tv wrote
My only wish for the home site of Swyx-forum is to have the links to the "Latest Swyx KB Articles" directly to the German edition - I am a little bit lazy.
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Alternatively you could subscribe to the Swyx support RSS Feed. The german feed is
http://rss.swyx.com/rss_feed_public.asp?l=de
I'm using IE7's RSS feed support which is rather limited, but sufficient. That way I don't miss any new article.
Martin HüserProduct Manager, Scrum Product Owner, Swyx Solutions AG |
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Just one more thought on the language discussion here:
Allthough Germany is the country the most Swyx Forum users are coming from, there are more users coming from none-german speaking countries:
- current total users: 553
- german speaking countries:
Germany: 222
Switzerland: 21
Austria: 11 - → 254 users from german speaking countries
- → 299 users from none german speaking countries
With these number I really don't see the necessitiy to open up german forums. In fact I would exclude the majority of users from useful information.
Tom Wellige
(Lead Solution Consultant, Swyx)
I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.
Richard P. Feynman
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