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New Post 5/23/2007 10:21 AM
User is offline Morten Rokosz
793 posts
gui.this-is-voip.net
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SIP phone on the Internet  (Norway)

I want to be able to connect a SIP-phone to the Swyx server from outside the LAN without using VPN.

I have a SIP-phone on LAN behind a broadband router and a SwyxServer behind a firewall. The port 5060 is forwarded to the SwyxServer.

Setting up the SIP-phone with the public IP of the FW as REGISTRAR makes the phone register to the SwyxServer. I can make outbound calls (no sound but that is another config issue). The problem is that I can not make inbound calls to the SIP-device. From the logs it seems that the SIP-device register itself with the local LAN IP-address and therefor SwyxServer tries to send an INVITE to this address, this will fail since it is on the LAN.

Is there a workaround for this that anyone knows of?

 


Morten Rokosz
(Swyx T.A.G Member)

Captain of the Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B

The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

 
New Post 5/23/2007 11:33 AM
User is offline Vulture
37 posts
www.letgo.nl
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Netherlands)

Morten,

I think we had the same problem with our Swyx server.

We use the server on our local network and external users can connect to our network via a Citrix Access Gateway.

This is a device that creates a sort of tunnel (not a normal VPN connection) on the local networkcard to the internal network.

We weren't able to connect to the Swyxserver from those external workstations.

We solved this problem by using the SwyxIt client as a SwyxIt now! client (SIP only) and installed a STUN service on the Swyx server.

With this configuration, the SIP client (SwyxIt Now!) uses the STUN server to get the 'real' IP adres of the workstation and report this to the Swyx server.

I don't have the name of the STUN server right now, but it was just a free program I found on the internet.

 

greetings

Martijn van Weert

Letgo!

 
New Post 5/24/2007 7:38 PM
User is offline Sebastian Dreier
80 posts
dev.dreier-it.de
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Germany)
Modified By Sebastian Dreier  on 5/26/2007 6:02:00 PM)

Hi Morten,

at the moment the SwyxServer does not support STUN, so it only can handle local ip addresses.
The most used workaround for this problem is a VPN connection but this does not seem to be possible in your situation.
The only other way would be a third party STUN server and SwyxItNow as described by vulture.
 


Sebastian Dreier
Quality Assurance Engineer
Protocols Development Team
Swyx Solutions AG

 
New Post 5/25/2007 8:30 AM
User is offline Morten Rokosz
793 posts
gui.this-is-voip.net
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Norway)

And how are we able to use SwyxIt! Now, last time we were told that this client is only available i bulk-licenses like 10 000 units or something like that.


Morten Rokosz
(Swyx T.A.G Member)

Captain of the Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B

The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

 
New Post 5/25/2007 8:40 AM
User is offline Morten Rokosz
793 posts
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Norway)

 vulture wrote

We solved this problem by using the SwyxIt client as a SwyxIt now! client (SIP only) and installed a STUN service on the Swyx server.

With this configuration, the SIP client (SwyxIt Now!) uses the STUN server to get the 'real' IP adres of the workstation and report this to the Swyx server.

I don't have the name of the STUN server right now, but it was just a free program I found on the internet.

 greetings

Martijn van Weert

Letgo!

Martijn

Do you still have that system running? If so, could you have a look at it and see if the name of the STUN service is visible some place. I would really like to try this approach.

The reason is that we have a Swyx reseller hosting SwyxWare for a lot of customers. From home-office and office LAN there is of course a VPN tunnel to the hosted server. But as the customers are moving on to use their mobile phones (with SIP support) on the SwyxServer they will expect to be able to use their phones on any hotspot or wireless LAN. We want to see if this is possible before to many customers demands it.

As for the SwyxIt! Now. How did you get that. Thought Swyx only sold those in really big bulks. Changed policy???


Morten Rokosz
(Swyx T.A.G Member)

Captain of the Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B

The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

 
New Post 5/25/2007 9:35 PM
User is offline Stefan Ditscheid
36 posts
7th Level Poster




Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Germany)

Hi Morten,

the problem is, that you not only need to get the call control (SIP) through your NAT routers/firewalls (which you did by the forwarding rule at the firewall), but also the audio streams. Assuming your scenario looks like this:

SIP Client (private IP, 192.168.1.10) ---- (192.168.1.10) NAT Router (217.194.238.1) ----- Internet (Public IPs) ---- Firewall (also NAT ?) ---- SwyxWare (private IPs, too ?)

This means, that the SIP client has to tell the SwyxServer (or a proxy):

1) Please contact me on incoming call to me on IP 217.194.238.1, Port A
2) Please send the audio streams to me on IP 217.194.238.1, Port X, Y

Without a STUN server configuration at the SIP client it is not aware, that it is behind a NAT router and therefore tells as SIP contact address and audio socket address always the private IPs (192.168.1.10) - of course SwyxServer or any other public user cannot contact the client with this private IP.

With STUN the SIP client always asks the STUN server (which is located inside the public internet), hey, STUN server, please tell me how my private IP-address/port does look like from your perspective ?
This means, the SIP client has to send a STUN request to the STUN server from it's private IP 192.168.1.10 and port 5060 to the STUN server. The NAT router on that way inserts inside its masquerading table a mapping from 192.168.1.10:5060 to e.g. 217.194.238.1:54321. This means, that answers to the NAT routers outside leg (217.194.238.1:54321) will get forworded to the SIP client 192.168.10.1:5060. Now the STUN server tells via a STUN response which is send to 217.194.238.1:54321 and therefore forwarded by the NAT router to the SIP client 192.168.10.1:5060, hey your message looked for me as it cames from 217.194.238.1:54321.
The SIP client did wait for this answer and now tells the SwyxServer/Proxy, hey, in case you have SIP messages for me, please send them to 217.194.238.1:54321 (and not the private IP as happend in your first test).

That's the trick with STUN and this must be done for SIP call control and also for the audio streams to be established.

Not yet complicated enough ? Ok, the story continues, because the masquerading table entries inside NAT routers are valid usually for only about 20 seconds. This means the STUN client has to send "dummy" traffic through this IP/port mapping continuously. Want more details ? Ok, there are different strategies implemented on NAT routers, e.g. with symmetrical NAT, STUN does not work at all - here is the only chance to use SessionBorderControlers (SBCs). In case you are interested in details, you can take a look into the STUN RFC: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3489.html

In case the SwyxServer is behind a NAT router, too (not only a plain firewall), the same story regarding STUN has to be done on this side again. Currently SwyxIt (not SwyxIt! Now) and SwyxServer do not use STUN, BUT the LinkMgr can be configured to use STUN. In hosted version SwyxWare server will get public IPs and therefore the SwyxServer itself will not do STUN, but the SwyxIt! hosted version (client) has to do it, in case of NAT router usage.

How to help you now:
1) Enable STUN usage at your SIP client
2) Use an "intelligent firewall" at the side your SwyxWare is installed which manipulates the SIP messages regarding IPs and ports and forwards the media streams
3) Alternative to 2): Put the SwyxWare installation on a public, routeable IP address if this is possible
4) Next alternative: Use an ENUM link via the LinkManager (who has STUN support) to do the calls, but this means your SIP client is not registered to the SwyxServer itself as a Swyx-Client, you just can do calls to your other SwyxWare users via the ENUM link

In case you want to play around: Usually you can use any STUN server located in the internet, e.g. stun.gmx.de is a reliable one.

cu,
Stefan

 


Stefan Ditscheid
Team Leader Protocols Development, Swyx
 
New Post 5/28/2007 10:43 PM
User is offline Morten Rokosz
793 posts
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Norway)

Thanks for the indepth explanation Stefan. I guess you know which phone I would like to use like this... It is like that, fix one problem and you got some more problems


Morten Rokosz
(Swyx T.A.G Member)

Captain of the Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B

The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

 
New Post 5/29/2007 9:59 AM
User is offline Vulture
37 posts
www.letgo.nl
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Netherlands)

Morten,

sorry for the delay.

The STUN server we used doesn't have a name.

I found it on the internet. It's a very simple commandline program.

http://www.vovida.org/applications/downloads/stun/

Just run it on the Swyx server. It will give out the Real IP adres of the client (if STUN is enabled on the client) to report it to the server.

I send you a personal message about using SwyxIt Now....

greetings

Martijn van Weert

Letgo!

 
New Post 6/21/2007 9:09 AM
User is offline Morten Rokosz
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Norway)
Modified By Morten Rokosz  on 6/21/2007 8:45:00 AM)

Thanks Martijn

This is indeed a useful tool, but it turns out that the SIP device does not have any STUN support

The SIP devices I want to use like this is the Nokia E-series.

Back to square one....


Morten Rokosz
(Swyx T.A.G Member)

Captain of the Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B

The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

 
New Post 6/21/2007 10:29 AM
User is offline ittk
142 posts
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Germany)
Modified By ittk  on 6/21/2007 9:35:41 AM)
Hi Morten,

do you have a (free) SwyxConnect. So you can use this box as your router with firewall vpn support and the most interesting thing as sip-proxy AND gateway. So if it's an option for you. You can setup the sip-line to your provider in swyxconnect and register all your sip phones as sip-user on the swyxconnect box. This does the job fine without the need of STUN because both ends (isp sip-gateway and your sip-proxy) have public ip addresses - no need for NAT at this stage of communication is needed. Internally all SIP-phones can use your SwyxConnect as SIP-Gateway can call internally or externally (correct call-routing to your provider is needed).
 
New Post 6/21/2007 10:33 AM
User is offline ittk
142 posts
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Germany)
Modified By ittk  on 6/21/2007 9:34:34 AM)
Hi Morten,

one thing i have forgotten to mention.

In this case really not STUN is needed (on Serverside and on ALL your clients) connected to SwyxConnect Box. So you don't have to take care of an sip-mobile phone like Nokia's Series who does not support STUN. That is the magic of the box :)
 
New Post 6/21/2007 4:29 PM
User is offline Morten Rokosz
793 posts
gui.this-is-voip.net
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Norway)

I do have a free SwyxConnect. I will need to upgrade the firmware. I will try this....


Morten Rokosz
(Swyx T.A.G Member)

Captain of the Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B

The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

 
New Post 6/21/2007 11:44 PM
User is offline Rene Wijninga
7 posts
www.communicationcompany.nl
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Netherlands)

Hi Morten,

You can buy the SwyxIt Now! client through Lancom (www.lancom.de) in quantities as little of one piece. It will say "Lancom" but it is the SwyxIt Now! client.

Hope this helps.

 
New Post 6/22/2007 12:05 AM
User is offline ittk
142 posts
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Germany)
Modified By ittk  on 6/21/2007 11:08:58 PM)
Hi,

that is correct. LANCOM is distributing the client (I only know of LANCOM als OEM-Distributor so far) And first you can choose the 30-days-trial option before you need to buy a licensekey.

Quantaties available are: 1 piece or 10 pieces but this will only work when used with windows-based sip-softphones and a swyxit! handset or something else. Swyxconnect is needed for the nokia part.

I you need any assistence for distributors of the client, let me know.

You can download it for WinXP at: http://www.lancom-systems.de/download/LC-VoIP-Client/Advanced-VoIP-Client-1.20-EN.exe

or for vista version: http://www.lancom-systems.de/download/LC-VoIP-Client/Advanced-VoIP-Client-1.20-EN.zip
 
New Post 6/22/2007 12:10 AM
User is offline Rene Wijninga
7 posts
www.communicationcompany.nl
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Netherlands)

Hmm, I am not completely convinced about the need for the Swyxconnect as Swyx is developing a Symbian client for their new Mobility server so that might be a better solution for incorporating Nokia (Symbian) and Windows Mobile devices into Swyx.

 
New Post 6/22/2007 9:22 AM
User is offline Morten Rokosz
793 posts
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Norway)

 wijninga wrote

Hmm, I am not completely convinced about the need for the Swyxconnect as Swyx is developing a Symbian client for their new Mobility server so that might be a better solution for incorporating Nokia (Symbian) and Windows Mobile devices into Swyx.

Well, I am talking about using Nokia as a VoWLAN phone using SIP. Not as a GSM phone with Swyx Mobile Extension Manager, although that is also a super feature, but for another purpose.


Morten Rokosz
(Swyx T.A.G Member)

Captain of the Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B

The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

 
New Post 6/22/2007 9:48 AM
User is offline ittk
142 posts
4th Level Poster


Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Germany)
Hi Morten,

i totally agree with you. Mobile Extension Servies is only intended for GSM-based services so far, as i know from Swyx.

So the only change to get your VoWLAN mobile-phone up und running is to use a SwyxConnect as SIP-Termination point for the phone.

Do you already have tested it with swyxconnect so far?
 
New Post 6/22/2007 12:26 PM
User is offline Morten Rokosz
793 posts
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Re: SIP phone on the Internet  (Norway)